I’m now in my third year of rampaging through the online dating scene. Though I haven’t met too many girls who were blog-worthy, I’ve learned some valuable lessons these past two years. Before I signed up, I was great at seducing women at bars and clubs, but an infant when it came to dating. In addition to getting laid, one of my goals with this online experiment was to build my coffee/dinner/drinks “first date” experience. While I still have a ways to go before proclaiming expert status on the art of dating, I’ve made significant strides because of my trials. I’ve toyed with all sorts of profile styles to have finally come up with something that works. I’ve learned how to judge girls’ profiles with 95% accuracy. I’ve learned how to “seize” a date without cockblocking myself. And lastly, I’ve now screwed up enough to know what not to do on a date. Having messed up royally on numerous occasions and thus wasting countless hours on this stuff, I’d like to give back to the people—both male and female—so everyone can make their dating life more efficient and less of a headache. My fuck-ups are your gain.
First of all, if you’re single and give a shit about your romantic/sexual interactions and growth, get on an online dating site. Stop making up excuses about money or “it just doesn’t seem natural” and get on one*. Now. I can’t even begin to tell you how many of my friends are worried of what people will think. Guess what: Your male/female acquaintances aren’t judging you if they come across your profile. If they’re seeing it in the first place, they’re in the same boat as you. And if they’re still mocking you, who gives a shit? Let ‘em laugh; it’s their life that probably sucks anyway, not yours.
*I’m actually on two—match.com and plentyoffish—but I should probably be on more at the rate I go through the databases.
The following guide was conjured from multiple conversations with women from the sites, and from listening to numerous male perspectives, ideas, and experiences from online dating. And of course, from the hours upon hours I’ve put into this ever-expanding domain.-Always remember: Unlike at a bar, you are now competing with over a thousand guys “within fifteen miles.” You aren’t that special, and unless you look like Justin Bieber, girls will quickly pass you up if you don’t stand out in every way—pictures, profile, messages. That love-at-first-sight thing only applies in movies—not in real life, and certainly not on a computer screen. Now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, let’s continue.
You don’t need a million pictures on your page. Four or five is optimal, and make sure you only put up your best pictures. And if you’re thinking, “But I don’t want to deceive her. She should take me as I look at my average best,” I understand; I used to put up two or three average-looking pics of myself and got minimal responses. Chances are, you’re better looking in person anyway. And besides, girls dupe us all the time. We must play their game. One ugly pic can ruin your chances; she’ll move on to the next dime-a-dozen guy. Don’t put up pictures that include other girls. Girls will automatically think you’re a “player”—or at least a wannabe one—and they won’t take a chance on you. If you aren’t a good-looking guy, put up one or two clear pictures resembling you at your prime (nothing older than five years ago—it shows). You’ll get plenty of dates with just that picture. If you have a good body, show it off—once or twice. Anything more, and you’ll only be getting responses from Riverside chicks.
– When I first started, I wrote a bunch of bullshit about walks on the beach and how much I loved to travel, thinking I was genuine and clever. No girls responded to me. Then I switched to a cocky profile where I pretended to be the man who criticized stupid qualities in chicks. It failed. So I adjusted and found a system that worked:
Write nothing about yourself. If she’s reading your profile in the first place, it means she’s already sold on your pictures. You have nowhere to go but down; your literary wit—as awesome as you think it may be—is overkill. Use your “Intro” to write precisely what you find attractive in girls—attitudes, passions, dreams. Keep it lighthearted. Does she like to travel or camp? Do you like girls who make faces? Do you dislike girls who say, “I know, right?” That kind of shit. Mention nothing about body parts. This intro should be no more than a paragraph. Anything more and you’re trying too hard.
– Most guys aren’t reading a word on your profile, and if he is, it’s only after he’s already messaged you and set up the date—so he can find out if he’s going out with an illiterate psycho or not. You can write an essay about your life story. Or list off what you’re looking for. You can misspell words, disrespect simple grammar rules, write obnoxiously in all CAPS, and basically sound like a foreign mongoloid. It doesn’t matter. As long as you’re hot and don’t write about Jesus, 99% of online guys will claw their way to get a date with you. The only thing that matters are your pics. If you’re ugly, be honest and post pictures of what you actually look like. Don’t worry, there is still a market for you—especially if you have a colossal ass and are into black guys. But if you post glamour shots that miraculously raise you from a 2.5 to an 8, we’ll go on a date with you, but end it after fifteen minutes. You’ll get butt-hurt, lose self-confidence, and rant to one of your undeserving friends who has better things to do with her time than listen to your deceptive virtual self. Lose-lose for everyone. One last thing: Please limit the pictures of your dog to one, maximum. Thanks.
Note: These days, when coming across an attractive girl, I do take a moment to scan her profile. I’ve been out with at least 40 different online women over the past two years, and thinking back on the results, I’ve learned which girls to steer clear from. Back then I didn’t think too much about their profile content because I was just looking to get in their pants. Now days, if I detect something fishy from the get-go, I move on to the next girl. Sure it’s judgmental, but you have to be; why spend your time and money getting to know someone who probably sucks anyway?
Guys, stay away from girls with any of the following red flags in their profile:
-A gargantuan checklist of what they want in a man. There’s a reason they’re still single: Because no guy in the history of Earth has ever met their 48 requirements.
-Face-only pics = She’s fat. If you still haven’t figured out this phenomenon, you deserve a blubbery doom. (Though sadly, I agreed to dates with three of these deceptive girls before finally accepting this fact—and I call myself a man of logic.)
-Glamour-shot-only pics = She’s ugly. If she has nothing but professional, blurry, photoshoppy-looking pictures, she’s hiding something—usually a devastating case of acne along with 30 extra pounds around the thighs and midsection. Plus she’s one of those retarded chicks who thinks she’s a part-time model because her photographer friend snapped a few shots of her not looking at the camera.
-Her username has “Diva,” “Princess,” “Sexy,” or “Classy” in it. She’ll look like Snooky and talk like Paris.
-She’s looking for her “partner in crime.” None of these have turned out well. On one date in particular, I ended it after one drink because she answered all my questions with yes/no answers, didn’t ask me a single good question, and basically sat there like a rotten slab of salmon. Two days later she called me and asked if I wanted to go bowling with her.
-She demands you come up with “something clever” for the first date. This chick has no interests of her own and is lame enough to demand a human tour guide through life. Unless you’re into the missionary position and Grey’s Anatomy, steer clear.
-She’s under the age of 24. I know it’s tempting, but don’t do it—you’d only be contributing to the problem. They waste their money and your time. She’s not on the website to hook up or find a man. She’s here for the attention—nothing more.
-She’s a hairstylist. Trust me—stay away…unless you like migraines and paying for everything.
As far as grammar goes, I’ve gone on dates with girls who didn’t use a single comma or apostrophe in their profiles, and they turned out cool as fuck and great in bed. But I’ve also met some women who were just as dumb as their sloppily written profile implied. Don’t read too much into spelling and grammar—unless she wrote the whole thing in caps, in which case she’s probably a raging feminist.
When you’ve found a hottie, message her. DO NOT WINK. When discussing likes and dislikes about the sites, the very first thing every girl tells me is that they won’t even look at a guy’s profile if he winks. Nothing screams wuss boy more than a guy who’s too lazy and dimwitted to muster up a simple email.
When emailing her, keep the email limited to only a few sentences. Always make at least one subtle comment about her profile to insinuate you’ve read it—even though you haven’t. So find something unique about her—either from her pictures, her profile, or side information—and throw it in there. Some examples of mine:
-“Not too sure about the “Go Sox” thing, but I dug your profile anyway. Any crazy plans this week?”
-“Not too sure about that face you’re making in that skydiving pic (What’s that white thing next to your mouth? A loogie?), but I loved the profile. Any crazy plans this week?”
-“I’m still wondering how “Irvine” is classified as one of your hotspots. Must be a misprint ;) Either way, love the profile. Any crazy plans this week?”
-“Finally a girl on here who’s actually smiling in all her pics. Didn’t think it possible ;) Any crazy plans this week?”
-“Finally a girl on here who didn’t write an essay about herself. Didn’t think it possible ;) Any crazy plans this week?”
To older women only:
“So I know I don’t fall into your “seeking men 34-42” thing, BUT…
I wrote this message in the future, and I’m actually like 38.
Love the profile. Any crazy plans this week?”
I’ve tried every possible angle with the messages. These past two months, just to see how simplified it could get, I did a trial run where I sent about 100 girls the impersonal cut-and-pasted message “Love the profile. Any crazy plans this week?” The feedback was at an all time low, so apparently the extra reference to her profile goes a long way.
Note: Messaging chicks is a major pain in the ass. To avoid hanging yourself from your scrotum, I recommend spending, maximum, one day a week (Sundays are optimal) putting in your work—an hour or so—checking out chicks and sending a tidal wave of messages. This should give you a whole week of dealing with their responses. Handle those emails accordingly, and when they’ve settled down and you’ve gone on a couple dates, send another barrage of emails, two weeks later. Keep it going in weighted cycles: Tidal waves of messaging, relax, reply, date. Tidal wave, relax, reply, date, etc.
The second message—not the first—is always the most important. If she responded to your first email, she’s into you. NEVER ask her out on the second message. I used to make this mistake in the beginning and adjusted after the tenth girl ignored my greedy ass. Be patient. Use the second message to tell her how awesome your weekend was (in one sentence—lie if you have to), and then tell her about your upcoming plans. Finish the message by asking her something she seemed passionate about in her profile (Yes, it sucks, but you need to spend a minute reading their profile.). Ex: “So what part of Australia did you visit? I was there last summer.” Or “So you’re from Newport? You better not be one of those chicks who constantly hits up Malarkey’s ;)” Never let the messages go past five (per person). If she’s still requiring “more” after the fifth message, she’s a major weirdo and future flake. Move on.
If she doesn’t reply after your initial message, she’s probably not into you. But there’s still a chance she checked you out, became wishy washy about your looks, and then put you off until later, ultimately forgetting. Send her this message:
“So I’m sure you’ve been busy with work, and that’s why you haven’t gotten back to me. So I’ve prepared some replies to you that you can cut and paste and send back to me.
Reply 1: Yes, trombone69, you are very hot, and unfortunately your email was lost in the sea of dipshits that have been emailing me. But yes, I would love to kick it sometime.
Reply 2: Yes, trombone69, you are very hot, but I’ve been too busy to get back to you. I’ll get back to you in the next couple days.
Reply 3: Yes, trombone69, you are very hot, but I’ve actually met someone from match.com, but he seems kinda lame, so I’ll probably be hitting you up soon.
Reply 4: Yes, trombone69, you are very hot, but you are not my type. Good luck in your search.
Reply 5: I don’t think any of this is funny, I take myself way too seriously, and I actually have to go now because I have a therapy appointment…but yes, you are very hot.”
I actually stole this from a “dating guru” named Adam Armstrong, who may or may not have been the same guy who came up with the “Sex God” texting idea. This single email has gotten more responses and led to more dates than I can even count. Feel free to use it at will, though there’s a good chance the girl you’re messaging has already seen it before thanks to me. Sorry for hogging it.
There is a sad reality to online dating: Seventy percent of the girls who are into you will end up flaking.
Every girl is different. Some girls will tell you what night works, and you can set up the date instantly. These girls are sure things—minimal flakage. Others will express interest and give you their number. But on average, only half of these number-givers ever actually go on dates; they all think we’re rapists. And then there are those who’ll require you to speak with them on the phone because they “need to talk before seeing you.” They won’t take the slightest chance on you if something sounds fishy in an email, text, or phone call. So don’t swing for the fences with your jokes. Play it cool, and if she sounds like a flaky bitch, stop responding to her. She isn’t worth your time.
For the girls who require a phone call, less is always more. Limit the call to five minutes tops. Unless you’re some sort of pro, no sparks will ever fly from a lame-ass phone conversation. Make plans for the date, talk another minute, then invent some excuse about being busy and hang up. I’ve fucked up with several major hotties by trying to build my phone-conversing skills, and I ended up yapping myself out of the date.
One more thing: Once she gives you her number or confirms the date, never message her again. You’ve succeeded; only communicate through texting from now on. Don’t get all giddy and send her some sarcastic encore message like I did all those times. Over-messaging has derailed countless dates for me.
Before reading this section, please note that my expertise in this area is short-term—one-night-stands, fuck on the second or third date, fuck buddies, cougars. My lack of long-term relationships in this lifetime speaks for itself. So if you’re out looking for a committed relationship, only soak in the following up to a certain point.
I have learned…
1) Avoid dinner dates. She’s probably not worth the money/company and you can get the same conversation doing something less extravagant. If she requires dinner on the first date, move on. She’s high maintenance and needy. You will never make her happy.
2) Coffee dates are optimal. If she’s cool, you can hang out for however long and suggest going somewhere better after the first hour. If she’s ugly or lame, you can leave within thirty minutes, having spent only five bucks on her.
3) Right there with coffee dates, are the “let’s get a drink” dates. Though slightly more expensive, these also allow you to get in and let things escalate, with the option of bailing if she sucks. The glaring upside with these is that sometimes you’ll hit a jackpot, and she’ll take you back to her place and fuck your brains out (smiley face wink).
4) Never under any circumstances agree to a first date where her friends are present. Unless you’re up to the task of impressing five chicks—two of whom are fat and angry—you’re walking into a minefield.
5) Never mention the word “Mom,” no matter what the context. It’s the trigger word for dependency and desperation.
6) Unless you have some serious experience under your belt, don’t try and be romantic. Avoid quiet, quaint, or soothing places–no matter what stupid-ass advice your female friends gave you. As with any scenario, having other attractive people around–especially female–will make women feel less special, thus making them more attainable and vulnerable. So go somewhere semi-happening, but nowhere too noisy where you have to yell at each other like apes (For those living in Southern California, Yardhouse is the perfect spot for a first date).
7) Kissing on the first date really isn’t a big deal. I’ve gone on to have lovely sexual relationships with either scenarios—kiss or no kiss. If there’s an attraction, it’ll happen soon enough. But if you’re insistent on it, make sure she’s over 24. Most younger girls live by too many rules and still haven’t expunged the “I hope he doesn’t think I’m easy” thing from their embryonic minds. My technique is as follows: I walk her to her car. When we arrive, I let her fiddle with her purse, while I stealthily lean against the adjacent car. I smile at her, not hugely. I get off the car and stay where I am, making her come to me. When she approaches for the goodbye hug, I’ll keep my face even with hers, so it’s up to her to sway. Sometimes I’ll grab her belt and gently pull her in. If she sways, I’ll give her a hug. If she doesn’t turn her head, I begin making out. Note: If you’re on a “let’s get a drink” date, and she’s already on her third or fourth drink, she wants your balls in her mouth. Make out with her at the bar. Easy.
After the first date, you’re on your own. She’s no longer an “online chick.” Treat her as an equal.
It has now been over two years since my first online date—with the boat-loving 42-year-old. Even though the 40+ chicks I’ve gone out with since then haven’t exactly produced a galactically hot girlfriend (though I did encounter a squirter along the way), they have led to sex with over a dozen very attractive women—two of whom I still see casually on the side. Most importantly, however, this stuff has really strengthened my “long term game.” It is with a heavy heart that I admit the fuck-anything-with-a-vagina era of my life is nearing its end. And it will be in part because of my toils through online dating. I’m finding myself actually enjoying spending time with girls as of late (future blog—I swear it won’t be too depressing). As I enter my thirties, I don’t see the word “marriage” entering my vocabulary anytime soon, let alone “girlfriend.” I do, however, see another tidal wave of match.com messages on the horizon. Time’s a’wastin’…
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Our mutual friend Luke Ollett recommended me this webpage. Truly inspiring! Im going to follow your advice.
Wish me luck
Good to hear bud. Keep me posted on the results.
Great post dave ive read it a couple times but i think i need your professional advice when it comes to editing my profile via match.com. I have had some success with it in the early months of joining but now i feel like my profile is out dated and needs to have a different approach. I understand that you shouldn’t be putting your heart on your sleeve but I draw a blank when i try to re-write what i have already wrote. If you can give me any advice that would be great.
No prob bud. Email me [email protected] and I’ll take a look…
Aw man this shit right here it is funny. Some stuff I can see it works. I like it only for the fact that I am a girl and it is cool to see what guys have to say. I understand it is hard out there for guys but to me it feel both ways. I get the guys point of view only because I have like 5 brothers in my life and one sis. but at another point I am 21 and dang I do not see my self to be like you say. Thats the best part about life tho every one is different and you only know what you have done so its life but great stuff like it. Lots of fun reading.
This is just too funny. I laughed out loud at so many different parts mostly because I can see each of these situations happening. :)
This is a great blog, keep up the good work! I have a question: I’ve had several chicks wink at me, when I send them an email they don’t respond. Any suggestions?
You’re probably sending them lame messages. What exactly did you write?
I wrote:
“Hi just saw your wink. How was your weekend?” and then I asked about this local festival thing that goes on around here. Too gay?
Yep. Way too gay. Girls hate it when we wink, so use the fact that she winked to your advantage. Try:
“I usually ignore all girls who lamely wink at me, but decided to check out your profile anyway because I was feeling risky. Loved what you had to say in your profile :) [write some comment about something unique about what she wrote, or something she seemed passionate about] Any crazy plans this week?”
Dave, I think that first sentence sounds pretty jerky. I’m a sensitive gal, probably I would hate that.
As long as I think the guy is cute I don’t really mind winks.
Girls that wink or young, desperate, texting nuts! I went through that scenario today. Of course I’ll always look at the girls profile/pics that winked me. There is exceptions I’m sure. Your advice about girls under 24 is a gut check, but it’s true!
Um, NO! I am not young nor desperate nor a text nut! I wink to initiate contact! If the guy likes what he sees, DO NOT wink back…send a message! Winking is the online version of meeting their eyes across a crowded bar and doing that whole “hold their eye contact and then flirtatiously smile and look away” thing that attracts guys! So I wink, and then it is up to them to contact me! Maybe if more guys followed the advice of women instead of fellow horndog guys, they would be more successful in finding women to be with!
No, girls do not HATE it when you wink! I love when a guy winks, as long as he actually emails after I wink back. So many guys out there wink at girls and then when the girls wink back, they just ignore them. If you want to talk to a girl, wink. If not, then why bother?
That first sentence is obnoxious and would turn me off completely! The way to woo a woman is NOT to insult her! WOW! These guys wonder why they are single! I think what Josh originally said was fine! Nothing gay about it. I would have answered him if he contacted me. What is with asking women if they have “crazy” plans?? I dont know anyone who plans “crazy” activities! Stop writing that to women…HUGE turn-off!!
Everyone-
This Jenn person has commented 7+ times throughout this blog, all of which contain at least five exclamation points each. Considering this, in addition to the fact that she actually thinks winks are acceptable, she is clearly frustrated with her online dating experience, is still violently single, is getting no dates, and will take any attention she can get from guys. Read her comments, though. Her frustration is comical.
Yep. I agree, this chick is delusional and one to avoid. Chicks do NOT dig winks. period. its an email, or you’re going down in flames. simple as that.
Hey there Dave. Saw someone post your link somewhere on pof forum etc.. I found it and decided to check it out. It has so far given me some good ideas as I seem to be having trouble with my profile.
One question – You recommended writing about what what type of girl you would like to meet attitudes, passions, dreams…
When I write this I seem to begin every or almost near every sentence with “I”…. anyway to get around this?
ex… I like a girl who…. I enjoy … and I seem to get a bit of repeats running out of stuff. :)
Any suggestions?
BTW 1 meetup a year ago from POF (bad) 2 meetups from OKC (bad to Ok)
Definitely don’t write “I” too many times. There are a couple ways around it. One way I saw a particular guy begin his profile was with, “This is why you are cool:”
He followed this with a sensual 10-12 sentence paragraph (all second person) in which he described his ideal woman.
Another way is to try something like “Defining qualities of girls that are cool…” Follow this by listing off some things I mentioned in the guide using dashes…
-isn’t afraid to get her hands dirty once in a while
-doesn’t hold in her burps
etc
Hope this helps
D…
Dave you have a guide? Where do you mention the list??? Ive looked all over…
Also any examples of the 2nd person form… or a site that has it?
thanks again
A woman will not want to talk to a guy who only says what he is looking for instead of writing a bit about himself. How will we know he is what we want if we know nothing about him? Guys, write a little about yourself (and not all about how you love your job—we wanna know about you, not your job) and then put what you are looking for in a woman. A balance of both is what we women are looking for and will make us respond to you or contact you!!
Dave or anyone else… unless I miss it but what if someone on POF visits you before you visit them first. Do you just start from the first message part and go from there?
That doesn’t matter. Message her as you normally would.
Power mate… If you’re on a “let’s get a drink” date, and she’s already on her third or fourth drink, she wants your balls in her mouth’…. that killed me!
Smartest dating shite ive read yet. Good thing i saw this twenty min after I finished my pro. and not six months in.
Awesome blog. I’ve been on plentyoffish and okcupid for about a year and 1/2 now and have experienced many of the same things. How would you rate match.com against the free sites like pof and okcupid? Is it worth the money when I’m already having decent success on the free sites?
Free sites are guys looking for hook ups and booty calls and friends with benefits! Paying sites have more guys actually looking for relationships. I have known a bunch of people who have found love from paying sites and only heartache from the free ones with all the players and losers!!!
I gave up on okcupid before I really started browsing the female database (they wanted me to pay to put up more pics–wasn’t down for two paysites), so I really can’t say. As far as match.com and pof go, I’d say it’s about the same. Same quality girls, same amount of flakes. So if you’re strapped for $$$, stick with the free sites.
But you say okcupid is free? Is there a way around the pay-for-more-than-one-picture thing?
Hey just got a potential meetup after like 2 messages. She wants to meet in person rather than just send emails, ok Okcupid.
Thanks for the help Dave its working so far!!!
OkCupid is definitely free. The only thing you pay for on that site is if you want what they call “extras”…like no ads on the site, etc. They don’t charge you for more pictures.
http://www.okcupid.com
I hope you get it figured out!
Your column was an interesting read – I forwarded a lot of excerpts to friends.
Found your link in the messages responding to one of the OKCupid reports. (BTW – You should read those – they are irreverent like you (though not as extreme).) OKCupid has allowed up to 10 photos for free since I got on in February.
You are a fucking pro because everything you have said is spot on. My only problem is coming up with something relatively clever in these messages. I mean for real… these broads will be getting the canned message treatment from now on (following the rest of your advice of course). Thanks for sharing. You are a gentlemen sir!
You obviously are not if you refer to women as “broads”!!
Brilliant!
Awesome advice Dave. Very true things you said overall.
I just tried your ideas and got a response right away. she said Ummm, I think you hung out with my exhusband last Friday. Oops not a good first start haha. lets try this again. good stuff for sure I am sure this will work.
Dave, I just got out of a 6yr relationship a week ago and I’m already over it. Any suggestions on what to say if they ask about my previous relationships? Anyhow, I’ve implemented your great recos, we’ll see how it goes!
NEVER mention or ask about past relationships. It puts a downer on the date, and puts her mindset in a negative place. If she asks about your past relationships, just smile and tell her, “Yep, I’ve been in relationships, but let’s discuss them another time.” If she’s cool, she’ll leave it at that (and appreciate that you aren’t a mope) and you can move on with the date and talk about more enlightening topics.
Wow man, I applied your tips Thursday after work, and 2 hrs later this hot chick tells me – Hey lets be spontaneous and meet up. It was great.
You should write a book or start your own TV show or something.
Lol!
Thanks again!
bang on Dave…got a 1st date tomorrow night and needed that info! It’s been 16 years since I had my last 1st date…ya I married her…ya it’s over!
Love it! Thanks for the tip on the pics, I was constantly revising my profile thinking there must be something wrong with it since I wasn’t getting much communication. I’m not fat, but I only had face pics because I just don’t happen to have a whole bunch of pictures of myself. Adding a full body type pic made a big difference. One question… does the same go for girls when it comes to the wink? Do you think guys would be more responsive to an email?
Winks are lame in general. Guys like online girls who don’t fart around and go after what they want. Message us with something simple like “Hey I liked what you had to say in your profile. Hit me back if you’re interested.” Don’t write more than a couple sentences or you’ll come off as needy and annoying. If we don’t get back to you, the same rules apply: We aren’t into you.
Dave: One of the things I’ve learned and it’s an axiom of Tennis: Always change a losing game. I must defer to experience. The online scene is a new one for me. I’ve slammed my stuff up on a couple dating boards. And have no difficulty shifting my “stuff” around. What is apparent is that an honest rather grounded approach no matter how well intentioned doesn’t get it done.
Rather ironic in that the “idea” was to get from beyond the “games”. Or so I imagined apparently. So it’s back to Nuance.
I am on this Adult site now: Whole different ball game. It’s like triple xxxadult…….whatever: Thinking again. He I can front here folks are about sex. Wrong again. I’ve tried a few different approaches in messaging. I guess some inscrutable power gave me enough sense not to flirt and wing or send an image of some chick getting a can with a gerbil in it. LMAO Anyway, I’d be interested if you have any insights into the “adult” sites or am I in a realm now where folks are extraordinarily conflicted?
Regardless learned much. I will totally revamp my profile to be as enigmatic as possible…………..just stick to business. Without the reveal. Interestingly, before I refined my profile I had quite a few messages. Anyway any insights into adult sites would be cool. Or should they simply be avoided?
Dave – you’re golden. Revised my profile after reading this, revealed absolutely nothing concrete about myself, and tried to make it funny and clever. It’s working: Chicks are actually messaging me first to tell me how much they enjoyed reading it, and my response rate is way up. Got my first date lined up for the weekend, and am working on a few more.
You da man!
So I gave the ” Love the profile. Any crazy plans this week?” thing a try and it doesn’t seem to be working for me (I’d mention something in her profile too of course). Just attempting to make a witty comment about something in her profile and asking a simple question seems to work out better for me. I’ve had good success with that.
I agree with pretty much everything else though.
Nice! Can you cut and paste some messages that have been working for you? Always good to see new successful approaches…
Sure. Keep in mind that these are totally dependent on what’s in their profile:
Haha feeding the homeless and shooting animals and possibly people (sniper), very interesting mix.
You can snipe them then nurse them back to health! =]
But you don’t mention college football!? Sounds like you need some guidance in your life.
—
I realize you’re trying to go the whole mysterious route with your profile but I’ve got you pegged.
You’re a med student by day, pilot by night, and dog by weekend.
Isn’t the med school at Lake Nona now? Have you worked with patient actors yet?
There’s two examples. I’ve found that the best bet is almost always humor for the first and second message. Like you said in your guide, if you get past the 2nd message you’re probably in good shape.
I like the “…but I’ve got you pegged” part. It’s amazing how some girls love being jokingly told what they are.
Sounds like you’ve got your shit together, Ryan. Good stuff…
I’ve definitely had pretty good success in my year and 1/2 on plentyoffish and okcupid. I kind of need to be though because I’m pretty shy and I have an awful time approaching women in person.
Online dating sites can still be really frustrating though.
Oh and I love your message to the older women. I can tell that will work well.
Actually you should make a guide for approaching women in person lol!
Hi Dave thanks for the post, you really hit on some good points. I’m really looking forward to implementing these strategies.
Hi Dave,
I’ve been receiving about 40 views a week on o.k. with few emails or responses to mine. I erased my profile essay’s and followed your advice on the profile page setup listing what I am looking for in one paragraph and I already received an email within an hour of the change. Awesome! I don’t embrace your life style of sex with many woman. I’m saving myself for one. I do appreciate your insights and for sharing your experience with me. That was generous of you. Peace!!
Ive taken in all your ideas and put together a profile that get all kinds of “views”. Ive chatted with many diffrent women but cant seem to lock down a date. Any ideas?
On my third message, I’ll usually send them this. They usually respond positively and give their number:
“So as much as I enjoy writing emails, I’m much better at communicating in real life. I hope I don’t sound like every other bozo on this website when I say: “You seem cool…and normal. Let’s get a drink.” But seriously, I actually mean it. Busy this weekend, but mid-week should work. Hit me back :)”
thanks for writing this awesome guide dave! I have yet to try these techniques but they make sense to me and I will be making immediate changes to my pof profile.
Very entertaining blog! As a female who has been on the on line dating scene on and off for the past three years I can appreciate the male perspective. It kind of inspires me to write a retort about the female side of things. Thanks for making my day, oh and by the way I am a VERY successful hairstylist….just sayin :)
Kind of inspires you? Or actually inspires you? Go for it. I’m sure we would all be interested to read about it from your perspective. Especially if it is as brutally honest and gritty as this post is.
Wow, what a shallow guide. And what a receptive audience!
I am a woman, and I’ve been on Match.com and OKCupid. I corresponded with many people, met up with 3, and dated 2 of them long-term. I am engaged to the 2nd after being together for 5 years. I consider myself picky:
–Anything and everything you say matters, except jokes and ‘witty’ one-liners. Those tend to be uniform, repetitive, lifted from TV shows, or probably guides like this one, and therefore have nothing to do with the person’s actual sense of humor. You can only judge that in a real-time conversation.
–Whether you have a picture or not matters less than how well and intelligently you express yourself.
–A one-line message never gets a response. Same for impersonal, misspelled, or lol-speak messages.
–If your profile is not reasonably informative about yourself and intelligently written, you won’t get a response.
–If you don’t let on that you’ve read my profile (as opposed to only looked at the pictures), you won’t get a response.
–Any kind of lie, no matter how small, disqualifies you immediately.
–There are no rules about kissing on the N-th date, or meeting up by the N-the message. If you stop corresponding with a woman because she’s not yet comfortable to meet you in person by message X, you’re not the kind of person she is looking to meet. Same applies for kissing & sex. Women risk a lot more in such encounters and guys need to be aware of that. (If you misjudged a woman, you only risk losing money and time; if a woman misjudges a man, at worst she risks injury and death).
When it comes to dating, you have to decide if you’re after quality or quantity. If your target are one-night stands, chances are the guide above may make some difference. However, this way you will be meeting a self-selected population of women who are only good for one-night stands. Your overall opinion of and attitude towards women will be affected accordingly. Your future chances of a successful, satisfying actual relationship will be affected accordingly.
A lot of the stuff you’re saying is valid. But IMO almost everything in his guide is too.
One liners will get a response if it makes them laugh.
Most of the methods in this guide work whether you’re looking for a one night stand or a serious relationship.
Women who are quick to bash this guide should make a male profile (average attractiveness) and attempt to message women. I can almost guarantee you it’s way more difficult than you think it is.
Well I tried the “I’m sure you’ve been busy with work bla bla”
multiple-choice-answer message, after a few mods from US to UK-speak. Got a
lovely response back from the first one. Her reason was “probably No. 4”,
combined with distance (100 miles, fair point), but really nice and thanked me
for making her laugh.
Also given my profile a total re-write, as I hadn’t realised just how bad it was
until reading this! But it’s still not perfect. Any chance, DG, that you’d give
it a once-over? Would be much appreciated. Time is of the essence at my age (48) ;-)
No problem. Shoot me an email [email protected]
Dave
So I’m sure you’ve been busy with work, and that’s why you haven’t gotten back to me. So I’ve prepared some replies for you that you can cut and paste and send back to me:
Reply 1: Sorry mate, just not gotten round to it yet, be back to you shortly
Reply 2: I never got your email, please re-send it
Reply 3: I can’t fix everyone’s!
Reply 4: Your profile’s perfection already, try as I like I just can’t improve it!
Ian ;-)
Lol that cracked me up. Sorry for the delay. I have like five of you guys who emailed me this week about their profile. Been super busy. I should have it done by the end of the weekend..
Loved your guide my man. You’re doing the Lord’s work. I’m in the process of a divorce. That said, it would be very easy for my soon to be ex to find my profile on any dating site, and I don’t think that would be good (don’t want the drama). Have you or has anyone else had success with a picture-less profile? Thanks!
No way. That may have worked in a 1988 personal ad, but today making a profile with no picture is like fishing for sharks with a hookless shoelace.
Hey Dave got a question. Do you prefer to go after the ones with kids or without and why?
I prefer girls without kids, but still message girls with kids as well. Kids aren’t a huge dealbreaker for me like it is with some of my friends. It all depends on your preference. If you don’t want someone else’s child to even have a chance at being in the picture, then stear clear. Your call. As long as she isn’t one of those lame chicks who writes “I’ll tell you later” on her profile, I’ll usually send her a message if she’s hot…
You’re a player, I’m looking for a sweet, attractive woman not “girl” to share life with. Not the airhead or gold digger types. I’m 27 and want to have a family within the next few years. I have strong family roots. I’m not bad looking but I’m really shy.
Do your tips apply to me or just to guys that are just looking for sex?
My tips apply to everyone on an online dating site. Whether you’re looking for marriage or just fun, the hard part is getting the date. Online dating is a murky swamp of generalizations, flakiness, and judgments. My goal is to help people understand the system, manuever around all this crap, and ultimately score dates. How you approach the date and go about your desires is up to you…
I don’t know why it took me so long to find your blog … Been doing the online dating thing for nearly 10 yrs. and your advice is spot on!! Everything from profile writing to weed thru the M.U.L.E.S. (Married, Ugly, Lesbian, Egomaniacs, Single-moms) to find the good one.
One bit you missed on the pictures section:
– If they’re showing mostly tit/cleavage pics assume they’re fat.
– If they have fat arms then they’re fat.
Dude… tried your tips and the first girl I sent a message to emailed me back within 5 minutes. Most attractive girl so far. Also, my profile pics still suck, as well as my profile.
Question: How long do you wait to ask for their number? I’ve been on 2 date’s in 1 month, but both ended up giving me their number. Also, I back off when a girl gives me her number right off the bat, call me a fool but it makes them seem desperate to me. I don’t want to come across that way, especially to the elite girls of this on-line dating game.
I’ll always backhandedly ask for their number on the third message. Check out the comment I wrote on July 25th. They usually reply to that message with their number. And if she doesn’t and pulls some crap about “maybe next week,” move on; she’s a flake.
Any thoughts when it comes to a profile’s heading/tag line? I’m not sure what angle to approach this with.
All they really care about are your pics and profile. The headline doesn’t mean shit, or if anything accounts for 0.3% of their decision on whether they’re into you. I can’t tell you mine, cuz that would be lame–but I would recommend some mild humor (Keep it short–my headline is three words long).
Basically, just don’t write anything cliche. If you’re looking for ideas, just search a bunch of guys’ profiles and steal one you like.
Dave, I changed my profile. I basically said “I don’t feel it’s really necessary to write an essay about myself or what I’m looking for in a woman here, I’d rather talk with you”.
Good – bad – horrible? What do you think?
You can Email me your opinion.
I gotta say, as a girl, it’s scary how you have whittled this down to a science. Pretty accurate stuff. I wanted to ask about 2 things:
1) I know you said guys don’t read profiles much, but do they look at the body description? I def. wouldn’t wanna go on a date with someone who would take one look at me and think “fuck, this is not what I signed up for.” I have two full body shots, but do you think that’s enough? Too much?
2) I have had a few e-mail correspondances where the response didn’t come until super late (one was 12 days later) but not because the guys haven’t gone on the website in 12 days. By then I assume they’ve lost interest, but then they’ve sent messages that sound super interested again, but frankly, I am just not patient enough for it, and I was wondering if you think your “I know you’re busy” with written responses would work for a girl. Thoughts?
Eman- Yikes. That profile doesn’t make you look mysterious, independent, or tough. It just makes you look lazy and borderline creepy with the “I’d rather talk to you” thing. Gonna have to do way better than that.
Rachel- YES, we definitely look at body description. In fact, I filter my searches only to girls who are either “Slender” or Athletic and toned.” I don’t go for husky women. Two full body shots is fine, as long as you’re not microscopic in the pics.
And if the guy doesn’t get back to you, move on to the other 50 dudes who are emailing you. I wouldn’t do the “I know you’re busy” response. From now on, if there’s a guy who contacts you, and you’re interested in him, tell him you’d “totally be up for a drink”–when he asks–and give him your number. Unlike girls, guys hate games and will be impressed if you’re straight up and ready to move forward.
Dave. Cool blog. I’ve tried a specially tailored “i know you’re busy” message. We’ll see how it goes.
I wanted to know how long you wait before firing off the follow up “busy” message? On this occasion, i’ve given it 3 days. Too short? I just thought i’d try my luck, particularly as im punching above my weight with this girl! haha
Also, what do you do if your first message gets responded too, but not the second? how long do you give that? different rules for diff levels of messaging? cheers!
Three days is about right–for both scenearios.
So, I just recently got into the online dating thing myself and I’ve been doing terrible at it honestly. Mostly from an over-described profiled I’d say. But I’m going to take your advice and start a new one.
2 quick questions though. Is a pic of your body crucial? I have a toned body, but not many pictures and it’s kind of weird telling someone “Oh, hey take a pic of me naked.” ya know?
second… you end all your messages with ‘any crazy plans this week?’ and it kind of comes off as superficial or something to me… I don’t know. Suggestions for other enders though?
One thing you can do with your body pics without coming off as douchy is you can strategically crop it so you can only see mid-chest and up (make sure the cropped pic isn’t microscopic though), so it doesn’t come off as showing off, but at the same time girls can see you’re in shape.
There are several ways you can end the message. Ryan from a July 6 message (above) had some examples. I generally make it a point to end the message with some sort of question. If you’re not big on asking about her upcoming plans, find something unique in her profile and ask about it–recently read books, travel spots, common passions, strange pictures where it’s unclear what’s going on, etc…
This is pretty ironic, but one of my biggest fail points in online dating is sealing the deal when a really attractive woman sends me the first message. I mean it certainly doesn’t happen all the time but I’d say I get a message from an 8 or 9 on a 10 point scale every month or two.
They almost always just stop responding to me at some point in the conversation. I really have no idea where I’m going wrong.
Maybe I should just ask for their number almost immediately (like on my second reply)? I’m guessing most of the time some other guy messaged them and caught their attention, so I’d need to seal the deal as quickly as possibly.
Anyone have similar experiences when a really hot woman messages you? Or any ideas on what I’m doing wrong? I feel like this is the last part of the game that is online dating that I haven’t figured out.
Ryan, do you still have the messages on file? Would be nice to break them down so we can pinpoint the problem. Just cut and paste them as a comment.
Yah here it is:
Her (opening message): im not gonna lie, i am totally a clothes stealer!
Me: Pretty bold confession considering my history with your kind.
I’m not gonna lie either, I’d definitely need some type of garment up front from you, as collateral, If we were ever to meet up. Probably your Celtics jersey.
Her: no wayy! thats the one thing you cant have! how about my new orleans reggie bush jersey? haha I tend to sleep over and leave with clothes.. bad habbit i guess! is my kind the female kind? lol
Me: Nah, I want a Reggie Bush jersey about as much as New Orleans wanted Reggie Bush, which is very little.
I’ll take your KG jersey. I mean nobody likes KG, not even C fans am I right? You guys merely tolerate him. So it shouldn’t be that difficult to part with.
Your kind = females + clothing thieves, so you’ve got multiple negatives working against you here. Talk about starting off in a hole… =]
What’s your reason for moving to Florida?
A chick I met from online dating stole my clothes, so her initial message is responding to that portion of my profile. My first reply was obviously successful, I’m thinking maybe I busted on her a little too much the 2nd reply? That’s really the only thing I can think of.
But that’s just one of a ton of failed conversations when a hot chick messages me. I can seal the deal with hot women I message first, but seemingly not the other way around.
Your response was good, but too much. Why waste time joking about Reggie Bush? What girl would enjoy that humor? She’ll instantly assume you’re one of those deadbeats who drinks booze, farts, and flops on the couch every Sunday. Online girls are stupid enough to make judgments like that.
Too much KG commentary as well. Should have just said, “I’ll take the KG jersey. Thanks :)”
Also, you overdid it with the “Your kind..” thing. Comes off like you’re trying too hard to humor and impress her.
DON’T GO FOR THE HOME RUN. SHE’S INTO YOU. KEEP YOUR RESPONSES SHORT AND SIMPLE. TAKE IT EASY.
And the worst part was your final question. Why did she move to Florida? Every guy out there has probably already asked her that boring, lame, predictable question. And now you’ve made her answer it for the 50th time. NEXT…
If she’s messaged you first, you’re granted one free messaging pass, so instead of waiting til the 3rd message, you only have to wait ’til the 2nd.
Though flakage still lingers, this “date close” (as mentioned a couple times in previous comments) has yet to be ignored. They always respond–usually positive. Use it..
“So as much as I enjoy writing emails, I’m much better at communicating in real life. I hope I don’t sound like every other bozo on this website when I say: “You seem cool…and normal. Let’s get a drink.” But seriously, I actually mean it. Busy Monday, but mid-week should work. Hit me back :)”
Thanks for the response. I’m so used to having to make a woman laugh for her to respond to my messages that perhaps I try too hard when they message me first. I guess I usually try to playfully tease them but it looks like I should probably stop with that.
I’ve met up with a lot of women that have messaged me first, it just seems to be the really hot ones/ones that I’m really attracted to that I strike out with. It probably makes sense that I’m trying too hard with them.
Next really hot girl that messages me I’ll try to tone it down a lot and then go for her number on the 2nd message.
I thank you man for the article I like it, but I need a lot of help from you. I would be sending messages to over 20 girls daily, and I barely get one or two to write me back. I’m new to this online dating thing, so I don’t really know what I’m doing wrong. I haven’t tried your techniques yet, but I’m about to make some changes. About the pictures, does it have to be long or short.
Dave, man I gotta tell you I really wished that I woulda came across this before last night. I was using the standard run of the mill profile jargon and was barely getting any action at all. I dug around in this forum for some great ideas and I went with the list thing. It’s a good list that I have going and I kept a lot of the required info hush hush cause I know chics like the mysterious crap. Anyway, my email traffic has more then doubled problem is I am getting the wrong kind of women emailing me and I can’t figure it out. I was wondering if you could shoot me some advice when you get a chance. I know you are busy has hell. Most of my traffic come from fat chics in their mid 30s that look like they are in their 60s! WTF is up with that anyway?
Hard to tell what the problem is when I can’t see your pics or profile. Shoot me an email and I can take a look…
Yeah you got a point..haha. Ok will do and thanks.
Hi Dave,
Wow – amazing info – thanks soooo much! I have to say I have a similar problem to Roge but from a girl’s standpoint. I have made my profile 2 paragraphs, short and witty with no lists of my ideal man. I have 3 photos, headshot, body in a skirt suit on my way to work (which shows off my great legs) and a fun photo of me riding a miniature bike. My male friends say I’m “drop-dead gorgeous” and I get winks on a daily basis, but they’re all from guys way too young or way too old, or just creepy. The hot, seemingly normal ones never reply to my winks or e-mails… can you help?
ps. Any tips or examples of what to e-mail a guy? I was told that a girl should never e-mail a guy as they like to do the chasing… I guess you don’t agree?
Not sure why you’re not getting the replies you’d like. Could be a number of things–you’re not posting your hottest pics, your main pic isn’t sexily catchy, something in your profile (kids or smoking maybe?) is a deal-breaker, or you have any of the red flags I listed in this blog. If you’d like to email me ([email protected]) your profile and pics I can take a look and give you a detailed critique.
There are no rules to girls emailing guys. Whoever told you online guys “like to do all the chasing” has a brain the size of a jelly belly and probably never gets laid. We’d prefer MORE girls email us. Saves us the hassle of doing all the searching/work/profile-perusing. just email them, say a thing or two that you liked or found amusing/humorous in his profile, and ask him a question. (Basically do the same thing guys do.) Just make sure that if he replies, you give him your number when you reply back (or wait, maximum, til the third email). Hope this helps…
Thanks Dave – you’re s star! Jx
Dave, what would you say to a guy, like myself, who is 18 and using these dating sites. (Your page only mentions girls over 24)
Love the site, btw
Damn, that’s a tough one. The first thing I’d tell you is to get out there and party. You’re in college–go get hammered and hook up with whoever is willing to hook up with you. Avoid girlfriends.
Second, if you’re looking to get married, then I’d say you’re an idiot. And if you’re looking for sex, you’re gonna have a tough time finding it with online girls your age–though my take on this isn’t the greatest because I despise chasing 19-year-olds. Is there a dating site for a younger crowd, say 18-21?
Haha, no, I am trying to go to parties, but I’ve been having bad luck finding friends to party with. Just never comes up for me for some reason.
And agreed, I really don’t want a girlfriend right now, but I see want to see girls though, in whatever manner it may be.
And noooooo, I never want to get married. That is the last thing on my mind.
And yeah, I would rather be looking for older girls then 19, but older girls aren’t interested in me, so I have to make due.
Okcupid.com is more or less for younger people, but that is about it. I haven’t heard of a site specifically for 18-21
How did you find parties when you were 18 or so?
College.
I’m in community college, and haven’t been invited to one yet. Am I just not looking hard enough?
Wow. No wonder you can’t get a relationship to last. Dude, the girls you’re hooking up with aren’t the psycho ones.
Good site, really like the advise. I’m still having a hard time getting anybody to respond to my messages. Wait I’m not getting any response? Is it possible that I’m getting the boot because I have a kid? Could you possible look over my profile and tell me what’s wrong with it?
Awesome article dude!
So I’m pretty much being stalked by this relatively hot girl on okcupid. She visits my profile just about everyday. I finally messaged her, and we had a good conversation via im. But now she is completely ignoring my messages (online and texts) yet she still visits my profile pretty much everyday. I don’t think I pissed her off, her last question was “What kind of girls do you like to date.”, to which I replied sane ones. Any suggestion as to what the fuck is going on dave?
This girl sounds like a complete psycho. She didn’t respond your “sane” answer, because she doesn’t fit that description. My best guess is you’re getting her at the tail end of a bad break-up with one or two online flings she’s had over the past year. You don’t stand a chance. Probably move on bud..
Nice article man. I was tearing up the bar scene until I moved to a new town and gave into the online dating world. I’m seeing a lot of success with taking the approach of talking to a girl like we’ve known each other forever. That comfortable feeling of being able to be funny while still being a bit dickish, giver her a hard time, and that nostalgic “remember when…” approach is golden. It lowers her guard and makes her melt. Good stuff, keep it coming…
Was wondering what you thought of ladies that put high incomes into their “match must have” area on Match. I will say half the time it is ladies who are doing well themselves such as self-employed entrepreneur or doctor.
I want to thank for the advise on here. I totally revamped my profile on several sites. Within an hour of doing so on Match, I got a wink from a hot 29yo teacher.
A query about pictures. You said not to include girls, but can you include ones of you with family or guy friends? I had read where it is good to have a pic of you with others to show you are social and have a life.
You’re reading their profiles too much. Who cares what she put for her “preferred income”? I doubt she even remembers what she put for that.
As far as pics go, I’d leave your family out of it. Most girls will judge you as boring and lame. But yes, make sure you include at least one pic of you and your friends–even if it’s a small pic and you can barely tell you’re in the photo. You do need one of those, though.
As a girl, I think this is absolutely hilarious. Though I can’t agree with a lot of the stuff you’ve written.. for example I hate when people lie, if I found out you had lied I’d stop talking to you.
But I’m not really your average girl either….
You’re totally average and don’t forget it.
You have a gift. Continue writing.
Would you say the caliber of women is better on match.com versus free ones like OKCupid or POF?
When I say “better”, I don’t just mean looks, but also in the “non-psycho” category
I haven’t really noticed much of a difference between the quality and non-psycho stuff. Girls are girls. I’d test the free ones out, see how that goes, then move up to the pay-sites if you’re still having trouble…
“4) Never under any circumstances agree to a first date where her friends are present. Unless you’re up to the task of impressing five chicks—two of whom are fat and angry—you’re walking into a minefield.”
uggghh so true.
Ok guys, big hint… this guy is not a dating pro… he has been at it for 2 years….. that means there is some major malfunction with him and his methods.
You are correct, Xcahkj: I am not a dating pro; I guess I’m just good at being single. Tell us, then–who should all the single people take advice from? Married couples?
Xcahkj; one does not have to be a pro to give good advice. Some men are just naturals at picking up women while others suck (wuss) at it. Learn to differentiate good advice from bad. If you were better than he in this area he would be the one reading your advice. Stoop to conquer.
Any guy that puts more stock in a woman’s looks than he does their brain or personality is not someone to take great advice from. Its that sort of mentality that is the reason why divorce rates are so high. You want to find someone to grow old with, not someone to stare at and place on your shelf like a gods damned trophy. After they’re old, what do you have left? Certainly not their looks. The fact that this man is a TEACHER and subjects those poor girls he teaches to the horrible messages of the media (IE: the anorexic supermodels in photoshopped, airbrushed magazines and commercials) by encouraging them into thinking that sort of thing is what all men look for is absolutely atrocious.
Call me a feminist if you want, but I’m calling this man a racist when he states that only black men like “fat” or “ugly” women as defined by his extremely SHALLOW PoV.
Not to mention an ageist, as I happen to be 23 right now and I, unlike this poor BOY, know what it takes to have a successful relationship.
I’m fucking sick of women villifying men who just want sex. Some women just want sex too. And some men, as well as some women, want long term relationships. There’s nothing wrong with falling into any one of these categories.
As if women actually have any idea what they’re attracted to. It’s a mystery, to both men and women, to what *actually* attracts women to men. But if what you want to do is catch fish, are you going to ask the fish what kind of bait they’ll go for, or are you going to ask the fisherman what bait has been successful?
YOU sir, are my hero.
If you’re ugly, be honest and post pictures of what you actually look like. Don’t worry, there is still a market for you—especially if you have a colossal ass and are into black guys. lol – even as a Black guy that got me ROFL, as only fat chicks tend to write to me first! – Excellent Read, Dave!
I feel like deleting my online profile right now. Puke
I puposely have a bad photo up. My profile and everythig else is short and blunt also. Between an okcupid advice site and your failures,( Fuck man! Thats how we learn. You can’t catch fish without patience and persistance! Not to mention failures!) I’m at least getting messages back. However, even if I get to two or three responces they stop. A few I know are not recieving many messages, so are they being nice or what? Any advice Dave? Anyone on here? We should all get together and share what we’ve learned. Call me CupidB.
I’m sorry, call me CatfishHunter. I’m am on OkCupid and a speed date site. You HAVE to be a model to get any girl to talk to you on there!!!! Even the “just their face in the pic” girls don’t respond very often. Like they are fulling anyone!!!! I’m not ugly, but started losing my hair at 19 years old. Theres still some up there, and I had a fantastic love life and a great relationship in college. I work so much now I had to swing to internet dating. Person to Person is a slam dunk, but I’m new to this whole internet dating thing. Your right, I am competing with thousands of other men in 15 miles, more advice!!!! I’ll tell you one red flag. The word serious anywhere near the word relationship. They may be looking for that, but women are very picky, and even more shallow online than men when it comes to looks.
This advice is fucking amazing. Totally am rocking through OKC and POF right now. Your quick response, from the post in which you went through three guys from OKC, has totally impressed several women. They love the no-bullshit first email. I changed it up a bit, I’d hate to have them google the text and see that I got it from a blog…but honestly that shit was spot on.
Thanks!
BTW I’m in no way a model type guy
Yeah that no-bullshit response won’t work with every girl, but it’s always good to switch it up from time to time. Hope things work out…
Hi Dave- I’m really enjoying your blog! Every now and then I hear that guys think it’s rude to not send them a “I don’t think we’re compatible” message, while others feel no response is better. I’m all about increasing my dating karma/skills. What’s better?
Also- I’ve had several guys recently that want to email back-and-forth forever and although the convo is good, I would rather them just ask me out or ask for my number! If I wanted a pen pal I wouldn’t be on the dating site… There have been some that I get frustrated and just stop responding to them because it seems that it wouldn’t go anywhere. Are they waiting for me to ask them out, or just wanting a pen pal? What should I say to a guy that I would really like to meet and he hasn’t brought it up (after 3 or more emails each)?
If you’re not into a guy, just don’t respond. We get it.
As far as the guys not asking for your number, you’re probably better off leaving those guys alone. They clearly suck with women if they’ve gone 4+ messages without making an advance so they can “get to know” you via a 100-word email. Frustrating I know. If you’re willing to tolerate these weenie pen-pals and want to give them the benefit of the doubt, just answer one or two of the 25 questions they asked you in their last email, don’t ask them a single question, and end the email with “Call or text me sometime ###-###-####.”
If they still insist on emailing you as if they live in Antarctica, move on–he’s a religious freak.
D
Hey Dave,
Awesome advice. Been on and off sites for 6 months getting annoyed at lack of responses or hits from less than desirable woman. So I followed your advice and a couple of others and WOW! I’m getting hits from hot woman. You give advice that is complete opposite of what dating sites tell us to do. Seems like they don’t want us to succeed, BASTARDS!! LOL
I noticed a couple of females on here bagging your advice, obviously jilted lovers and ones to avoid on on-line dating sites. They don’t like the fact that you have exposed women’s psychology and are exploiting it to your advantage. I love it when we get one-up on females cause hey they have us by the short n curlies don’t they? They have what we want and they know this and so they exploit this fact and make us go through hell to get it, and some in the end don’t even give it up! Religion and society have a lot to answer brain-washing woman into wanting a monogamous relationship, which genetically we aren’t really made for, males are meant to spread their seed with as many females as possible, females are gentically made up to be mothering and nurturing. You can’t fool nature and that’s why the divorce rate is so high in western cultures. We are animals in the end, just have a bit more intelligence (well some of us do).
So in conclusion I am passing this on to my mate who is also doing on-line dating. He has had more success than me but he has tatts and chicks seem to dig them, but he does get some very ordinary women thou.
One question thou, I am a full-time father, only getting every second weekend free so it’s hard for me to find time to see these women. I dont’ mention my child in my profile cause I know this is a deal-breaker. So when is it a good idea to mention I’m a Dad? I have a excuse worked out to anyone who questions as to why I don’t mention it on my profile which I havent used yet. But I would say to them that it’s no-ones business except my ex’s, my daughter and me. I also say that because my profile is public, I don’t want things that are personal to me for the public to see and also I would say that my daughter isn’t here for a date and I’m not taking her on dates, so there’s no point mentioning her. Is that a good response you think? Or do you have a better suggestion?
Apart from that thank-you for sharing this information with us males. You are a life-saver as well as a face-saver. Awesome stuff!!
Joe-
First of all, stay away from yahoo dating articles and suggestions/tips from the dating sites. They’re usually written by married people.
As far as the father thing, I really haven’t been in your situation so I don’t have any experience to go off. My advice to you is that it all depends on what you’re hoping to get out of online dating. If you’re looking for something long-term, then be honest and post that you have a daughter. If you’re just looking for flings, then don’t post it.
The best way to go is to see if there is a way your dating site can just remove the “Children:” thing from your profile, so it doesn’t show up. Writing “I’ll tell you later” is a horrible mistake; it just shows you’re sneaky and could possibly have seven children with six different women.
Hope this helps
D
Dude, It took 5 messages using your stupid ass “Got any crazy plans this week?” line. Bitches get what the deserve.
make that 2 replies. I love you dave.
It has now been a month give or take in this social experiment into the digital female psyche I call my online dating profile on Okcupid. I read your article and several others at about the same time I started. It put me on the next level and I thank you for it!
One major thing every girl/women has in comon no matter what they say on this site is as follows: They want to find a good looking guy, and build a “relationship from a friendship”, while not realizing the way they are doing it is hurting them, and wasiting guys time.
I guess girls picture it this way so they can really get to know the guy and trust him, or they have read or heard to many stories! I love the movies “He’s just not that into you”, except the last part where Justin Long did end up in a relationship with that girl!!! It doesn’t happen often, rarley at all. Girls here to many I know a firend who has a firend who has a cousin stories and think that it will ans should happen for them like that, but we live in reality land.
I’ve recently lowered my expectations and standards and it has opened a whole new world to me. Women should do the same. On a side note you were not kidding about girls under 24! At least 25 should be the standard. Even some of them are flaky and on the sites for attention.
My anlaysis is these sites should be used in small doses. Also, meeting the girls/guys (this goes out to everyone), in person should be everyones highest priority no matter what you’re looking for. Don’t hesistate and just keep im and messaging them, unless you want to have an online romance. Dave spelled it out for you on how to get girls off the computer, for free, after years of doing this! You will miss life if you’re stuck behind a screen, and you sure as hell wont be snuggled up with something besides your pillow or pet unless you suck it up and GO OUT WITH PEOPLE YOU MEET ONLINE!
Holy shit you’re good. I wasn’t having much luck getting any replies so I just sent the message you suggest for girls that don’t reply to about 20 girls. 5 minutes later and I’ve got 4 messages already. Not one girl I sent it to has so far looked at my profile and ignored the message.
Thank you my friend, you have restored my faith in dating sites, I was about to give it up.
Why no advise for the ladies on what/how to message guys??? There are men out there that are just as selective as the ladies…
Just email him: “Hey cutie, I like what you had to say in your profile. Anything going on this weekend?”
It’s not exactly sparkling, but in all honesty, it doesn’t matter what you write. If he doesn’t respond, he isn’t interested. Simple as that.
Well Dave I went against your advice and I met a girl at a bar who was there with her friends…lol. Boy was I in for a shock, the girl was fat, biggest ass I ever seen! I was already there so I decided to make the best of it and had a few drinks and hit the dance floor with her and her friends. One of her friends was really hot and I concentrated my best dance moves on her. The girl I was there to meet went to the bathroom and I seen my chance so I decided to ask her hot friend for her phone number and I was suprised she was eager to give it to me.
I had a great time the rest of the night and the band was awesome, we was all getting ready to leave and the fat girl looks at me and says remember how I said I was honest? I said yes? She then tells me she just is not feeling it with me…lmfao! (If she was so honest why did she not send me a current pic? The one she sent me must have been before she had 10 kids and 3 million pizzas) I have since called her hot friend just to verify it was actually her number because I had the feeling it might not be but to my surprise it was, we talked for a while and are meeting each other this weekend alone with none of her friends….in the end though I would agree on your advice and not meet a girl and her friends, I just got lucky!
Let me add another girl to avoid Dave as well as readers. If a girl says she has had gastric bypass surgery run even if she looks good run as fast as you can, some how or another I have met 3 of these girls in the last 6 months on POF and they all had breath that can choke a goat seriously, I googled gastric bypass surgery and bad breath and it is a common thing!
Alright so I’ve found that an opening message as simple as:
“So how do you like (okcupid/plentyoffish/match)? Met anyone cool thus far?”
Gets a pretty decent response rate for me. The problem is the second message. Got any ideas how to follow that first message up that keeps the conversation interesting, Dave?
Also I’ve done testing with my profile. Mentioning that I used to be very shy seems to work greatly in my favor. I get far more women messaging me than I did without mentioning it, and a bit better response rate too.
I basically say that I used to be very shy as recently as a few years ago, but through forcing myself into awkward situations like meeting up with women from dating sites I’m much less so these days.
I follow it up with “apparently I’m not TOO socially inept though, because everyone I’ve met from here has wanted to hang out again =]”. Which is true.
I had that on my profile for a year or so, then took it out for a couple months and my and there was a very noticeable difference in the amount of messages I received.
Dave,
When I am “Defining qualities of girls that are cool…” I feel like I’m making a generic grocery list. How much humor should be in there? I also find it interesting how guys are supposed to avoid girls w/ lists, but at the same time I’m sitting here making a list. Also, since girls are so insecure to begin with, what happens when they’re going down your list and they come across one thing they think they might not have? I would think that makes them get insecure and not respond to your message…
I see your point. As far as humor goes, incorporate maybe two lines maximum, and keep the humor dry, nothing daring or remotely sexual. If you’re not a fan of lists you can always do a simple paragraph along the lines of “You are smart, positive, energetic with a thirst for adventure. You find the good in…” etc.
Colossal ass? Man it really depends how big her ass is. A lot of guys like big asses not just blacks, and there is a limit to how big that ass can be. Unless you just love fat chicks overall, then i guess there is no limit.
Hi Dave
Great blog, thank you.
I need to raise a sensitive topic: age.
I am 52, look 42 to 45 and have dated girls in their early 30s. I have a full head of hair with not grey, am fit, can bench press 300lb (not bragging, just to tell you that I have an athletic body, no fat gut or wobbly ass). I don’t want to meet women of my own age: even ones in their forties can be quite scary.
If I tell the truth about my age, I will get zero response from my target group (35 – 45). If I lie and the relationship progresses, then I have this big lie to contend with with the associated trust issues when it comes out. Meeting women in bars does not have the same effect – they judge and select you based on what you project through your appearance and personality, not the number on the site?
Any suggestions – is it ok to lie? I think a lot of people do, but it doesn’t sit comfortably.
It all depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re only out for short term flings, then yes, lie about your age. If you’re looking for a relationship, I can’t imagine lying about your age being a good thing, but I’d get a second take on that from someone with more “lying experience.”
You may want to consider creating profiles with two different sites. Lie on one, tell the truth on the other. See how it goes…
Charles, I’m in your shoes, and though I haven’t tried this yet, I’ve seen it done – put your age as “99”. Obviously a lie, but really saying “I’ll tell you later”.
you’re a moron you old man, i’d never date you
And you’re a judgemental cunt.
Mr. Glenn
I am new with this whole dating site. I got 1 to 2 hot email one or twice then stop she stop emailing me back, what did i do wrong?
Uh. You’re gonna have to provide me with some, uh, info. Cut and paste your messages, we’ll have a look
Dave. I’m a young divorcee but I used to know how to handle my business. Now I feel like a lost little puppy. Show me your ways. I’ll send you my profile name and shit.. I’m sure it’s pretty gay.
I have tried all this and more and only manage to receive a good deal of replays when I change the profile photos to photos a hot friend of mine. On this case I even mange to receive replays using old messages that were very bad. So… men and women seeks the same! It’s all about physic beauty…!
Dave, great article man this shit is hilarious. Like you I’ve never had trouble with picking up girls at bars or in college and figured why not try and get more ass going the online route. I just joined okc about 2 weeks ago and am so glad I found your blog as early as I did bc I clearly have no online game and I think was coming off as an asshole to most girls.
Quick question, Do you ever just give out your number to a girl that is clearly interested after asking to grab drinks or do you always ask for theirs?
Usually at the end of my 3rd or 4th message, I’ll throw in this:
“So as much as I enjoy writing emails, I’m much better at communicating in real life. I hope I don’t sound like every other bozo on this site when I say, ‘You seem cool…and normal. Let’s get a drink.’ I actually mean it. Busy tonight and [day], but free [day] and [day]. Hit me back :)”
4 out 5 times they respond positively and give their number.
Cool, thanks. I’m going on my first date tonight with this chick off okc. It’s a “lets grab a drink” date so I’m expecting good things. Keep you posted.
I loved reading this! Just about every comment made me smile.
That clever option of responses would work 100% with me.
Loved it! Dave you are awesome ….I felt like putting a wink in there..
Does that make me a loser? I like a wink… It means you are kinda
mischievous…who doesn’t want someone kinda mischievous? Again another wink would fit in nicely here…
Dave,
This stuff is awesome. I’ve gone out with about 50 girls since I started online about a year and a half ago, but most of them haven’t been as hot as I’d like. There have been a few hot ones, but still searching for long term with one. The vast majority liked my profile and initiated with me, and I had real trouble getting any girls that I initiated with to respond. I’ve gotten way more responses using messages like the ones you suggested, but I’m thinking hotter, more social girls don’t like my profile as much as some of the more giggly, homebody girls who love it. Would you mind taking a look at it:
Look guys, girls are more obsessed about looks than even us. No “formula” for your profile or witty/cock/lame/stupid message is going to change that. You can be hot and message her with “blahS GJKSG asFS JG” and she’ll respond with “so when do you want to meet up?”
Just work on your looks and don’t be completely awkward and creepy. That is all.
God damn it Dave, I’m not sure if you are an asshole or a genius. I’m just going to assume you are the devil and aim to help men score so they are more likely to go to hell, and follow your advice.
Hilarity mixed with nice tips. Schweet!
you’re a fuckin genius. this shit is working!
I’m a woman and I if a guy sent me any of the first messages you suggested, I would not answer him. They are ridiculous! How does one even answer “any crazy plans this week?” I would have no answer for that….Most women want a man that has the intelligence to actually write a normal email to her. Please stop telling guys to act like teenagers where their only goal is to get the “chick” into bed!!
I don’t know if you’ve ever tried messaging girls on dating websites before, but even the most sincere and thoughtful messages often go nowhere. It really is a waste of time to put a decent amount of effort into a message.
^Truth. You really have to send a massive quantity of messages to get one response, unless you’re Channing Tatum, or you’re messaging obese women.
I second this. The more thought I put into my messages, the more time I’m wasting.
And a winner of the princess award, what on earth makes you think youre so special i’d actually waste a good amount of time on a witty message you’ll throw in the trash. Sure men want the girl in bed but nowhere near all of us are like Dave, nothing wrong with him being him though.
These days i simply blow off any woman who expects me to treat her like she owns my balls, no thanks i’ll find company that actually wants to please me too.
Jenn-
You complain in this rant about guys not putting in enough thought into their messages to their broads,, but then you previously ranted with 7+ paragraphs about how sending a simple, lazy wink is more than acceptable in your book! How is it that you won’t respond to a guy asking about you having plans, but you will respond if he just clicks a sleezy and cowardice button on your profile real quick. Sounds like you’re more of a skank than you’ve put on. Also, there’s more of your ridiculous comments on another of Dave Glenn’s blogs, where you rant about how any free dating site is for booty calls, yet again you insist that winks are appropriate. How are winks not equivalent to a guy just wanting a booty call. You are a walking contradiction and an idiot feminist, please rid of us of the manure you continue to spew at us, because honestly….no one is listening to what you say, but rather just laughing at it as they take notes on who not to date.
Dave
Good article – witty with some sage advice. I cannot express how important the profile pictures are. Women, just like men, are motivated to respond or contact a guy if they consider them attractive. So guys…post recent, close-up pictures! The one’s of you taking a picture of yourself in the mirror with your shirt off are pretty cheesy, as are the ones in which you’ve cut off your girlfriend and part of your shoulder is missing because of it. The main picture should be one where we can actually see your face. Please limit the pics of you on your motorcycle, holding a fish (we really don’t care), 1 pic of you surfing, skiing, biking is plenty. We like it that you’re active, but we don’t need to see 5 pics of you to get it.
Hey Dave,
I’ve been following your advice for the past few months, and I’m not sure if it has something to do with the state I live in (Washington) but man, I have to tell you — my sex life is at an all time low. I’m a Cali baby but as soon as I moved to WA my dating life changed drastically. I workout, mixed martial arts, full time student, the whole nine yards and I haven’t gotten laid in over a year (and that was with an out of state girl before that 3yrs!), and I’m starting to think it has something to do with the “isolation theory” hehe Anyways, what do you think I should do to increase my odds? I’ve been on match, datehookup, and zoosk for the past six months and haven’t been on a single date.
Best regards,
Drew
Hey Dave,
I’ve been following your advice about online dating, but something is not working and I’ve wondered if it’s because of the state that I live in (Washington). For the past few months I’ve been trying your advice but I’ve only gotten minimal responses and zero dates. I workout, do MMA, and I’m a full time student, and yet I still haven’t gotten laid. I’m on Zoosk, match, plenty of fish, and datehookup. So, I’m starting to believe in the whole ‘Isolation Theory’ due to the fact that I honestly believe that there is something wrong with the women in this state haha Anyways, I think you’ve put up some great stuff, just need suggestions on what I could improve on.
Best Regards,
Drew
Hey Dave what does it mean when they want give you there number but say “maybe” after the attempt at the end of the 3rd message.
Uh what? If they gave you their number, they’re interested.
Dave came across this goldmine just a couple days after making my profile on OKC.. I immediately made a new one on POF.. was wondering if you could take a look at them and lemme know in your opinion if they are lacking or have too much.. Thanks bro
oh and the rest of the site is fucking hilarious and insightful.. love guru meets tucker max
Yeah, shoot me an email. I’ll take a look. [email protected]
Hi. I’ve just tried the second message option you suggested for when you don’t get a response from your first email. Mate, within seconds I got 2 responses, and each said they found the cut and past options very funny. One, who is so nice looking, is now interested in finding out more about me!
I know you said never agree to a date with friends, but what if their parents and older friends where there. I live in Bruke County NC btw not much to choose from but I did agree to meet her with ‘some friends’ didn’t know her parents where going to be there. Had to dance with her mom.. Whats your take on that situation?
You’re a pig. A sick, sociopathic, misogynist pig.
A pig? Possibly. A typical young human male would fit as well. Woman hating? I don’t see any evidence of that. Sure, he steers clear of overweight unattractive women, but I’ll wager a year’s salary you are also not interested in dating overweight unattractive men. That’s because nobody is. That doesn’t mean he’s a woman hater any more than it makes you a man hater. Sick sociopath? Those are really strong words, are you sure you know what they mean?
I have dated overweight, and possibly, by some standards, “unattractive” men (and no–they didn’t have money), because I know what’s important in a relationship. I’ve dated old and young, rich and poor, blazing hot and meh. The most important thing is finding someone with whom you have similar interests and goals, and whose quirks and faults mesh well with yours. You get the major stuff agreed upon: sex, religion, money, procreation, and the depth of commitment–you’re golden.
And I’d stack up my vocabulary against nearly anyone’s, any day.
Given that you appear to be about 20 years of age, I’m going to go out on a limb and say I really doubt that you’ve dated the wide range of men you say you have. Further, there is a lot of research that shows that people tend to almost exclusively date other people who are similarly as attractive as themselves. That is, eights tend to date eights, fours date fours, and so on. Even if you are the rare person who happily and actively dates outside of your own attractiveness range, given two people of similar qualities (kindness, generousness, attentiveness, etc.) if one is decidedly overweight and the other is not, you, along with everyone else in the world, will gravitate to the one who is not overweight. Mind you, when I say overweight, I’m not talking about ten to fifteen extra pounds. What passes as acceptable these days is ridiculous, although there are millions who have bought into that image.
You’re just full of wrong information. I’m my mid-40s, and I’m fit, and while I like a person to care about their health, I don’t mind some extra weight on a man. Ten to fifteen pounds, BTW, can vary in its results, depending on the body it is on. The man with whom I’m very happy is probably 30 pounds over, right now, but I wouldn’t trade him for anything in the world. Your little rating system just shows *your* mental and/or emotional age. Which is probably common on this page, of course.
As it turns out, Naoyusimi is indeed a 22yo Japanesse single (so the age guess was close) female. However, the “stats” that she spews here couldnt be further from the truth. She is obviously not 40, nor is she “fit”. You can find her on OKC with the same profile photo. The problem? She’s overweight herself. Thus, that is the reason why she did not like the weight statements nor the rate system. She is about a 2 on a scale of 1-10 who thinks that she can date a 10. I gave her a 2 because I actually like the cat photo even though it’s not really her. She is frustrated that she cannot date out of her own rating bracket.
You’re high-larious! |||||claps hands||||
Tell us another one!
Difficult? Oh yes. I tried Jade’s type of advice for years and it completely failed. Now I’m trying Dave’s advice and it isn’t working either. I’m thin and fairly good looking, kind of average, but if all the pretty girls want Adonis then I don’t know what I’m supposed to do. They seem to ignore almost everything I write.
Try changing your pictures. That’s more important than anything you can possibly write.
Wow, Dave still checks this thread! Thanks Dave!
I am in the same boat except I have no photos at all because I’m not good enough to have any. But if you put in a little cockiness with a side of nice guy charm all packed into 3-5 sentences, you’re going to score. I do. I am NOT a cocky/alpha male kinda guy in the least, but if you can give that aura online and land a date, then the rest is easy peezy. She is far more likely to like you for what you say rather than what you look like when you actually meet in person. The advantage you have in person is that women are not physically minded beings as much as a male is. They can be aroused mentally but you really have to work hard on it. Just not online. They like the bad boys online because it’s risk free….. until you meet. Then you have to shape up or ship out. You have to be borderline assholish online to get them to reply to you, but careful not to go TO over the line or you are rendered to much of a jerk instead of “confident”. This is why some of Dave’s msgs are borderline rude. It displays a confident pose since you have the gall to NOT compliment and worship their every perfect curve. It intrigues them more than it “attracts” them which is why they reply and any woman who tells you different is just flat out lying or is a total 1-2 on a scale of 1-10 herself. This is also why you have to close the deal quickly, because they are only intrigued, they are not yet “attracted”. That only happens in person. And NEVER EVER EVER give them a chance to “flake out” by sending them a “are we still on for sat night” message!!! NEVER EVER EVER NEVER EVER. Instead, 1 to 1.5hrs before your date, simply say “I’m on the road and about half way there, let me know when you arrive, thanks sexy”. Or something like that. It will make them feel GUILTY AS FUCK if they planned to NOT show up, and it gives them plenty of time to get their ass cleaned up and out the door to actually show up. But if they STILL flake out, then you dont waste your own time since you hadnt actually left yet anyway. Dave mentions not contacting them before the date and I couldnt agree more. I have lost more dates than I can count simply because I asked if we were “still on”. But I found that if I just guilt trip them into showing up with the whole half way there trick, I am in the 90 percentile of attendance. I’ve only had a couple girls actually flake out, and those that did promptly txtd me back begging for a new date, to which I proudly clicked the “close” button on since I dont need that kind of run around crap.
Wha? Where did my posts go?
Ehh, Disqus is weird.
Man, I dont care what the haters say. This shit is gold! and funny as Hell! Thanks for writing a post that guys can actually use rather than recycled half-baked advice (Mens Health.com?!?! haha). Guys often downplay the importance of pics. You just absolutely need at least 4 and not more than 6 really good pics. When I check out a girls profile I’m looking for 3 good pics taken at different times and at least one body shot. Guys should have the same, at the very least. And If you cant take a good picture of yourself, find someone who can. Stay clothed and have an interesting background. No pets, no friends.
As for the first message: i still struggle with this. But I’m starting to get some responses. Something guys have to understand is that if she’s remotely good looking, she isn’t keeping track of her messages because there are so many coming in. You have to remind her who you are. A grammatically correct, 4 or 5 line message that references something from her profile, asks a question, and doesn’t mention her attractiveness, should get her attention. After that she’ll look at your pics (see above).
The only thing I wonder about, and have read contradictory advice on, is whether to keep messaging a non-responder. I usually try two emails and if no response then stop messaging, but if I’m really into her I have sent a third funny email or a straight-up email saying “my friends and I are going out for drinks tonight to celebrate (blank), you should stop by and we can meet and share a drink”. and lo and behold she messages me back!
So, I’m not convinced that the overwhelming opinion: “dont message her if she doesnt message back” is applicable in all cases. I think the fact that she’s not really keeping track of all those messages and that she cant respond to everyone has something to do with this phenomenon. And, if you just message once and never again, you’re not really going to seem that interested in her.
Ok I’m sold. I swear no lie, I’ve had no luck at all with OKC. I read your advice, made some changes to my profile and within 10 fucking minutes I’ve gotten my very first response, NO SHIT!
I’m a chick and I absolutely enjoyed reading this guide. The brutal honesty is quite refreshing. I would very much look forward to reading in what ways your tactics, goals, etc. change over your maturing years……
Wow, this is awesome! I never knew any of this and would explain a lot of my problems with communicating with women on dating sites. I can’t wait to apply these tips A.S.A.P. and see what happens. Thanks
Hi Dave – good post! Struggling to think of a good screen name…! What should I include? What would you suggest?
Cheers!
Andy
Hey can you take a look at my profile? Could use some advice
This shit actually works. Changed my profile to absolutely nothing about myself, sent a 3 sentence email, and my reply rate went from 1 a month to 5 mins after I read this I had 3.
This guide has helped out a lot. I used the random crap and crazy plans for hundreds of messages and got responses from multiple girls on several different sites a piece already on the same day. Working on what to say in the third message with a few of em. I just don’t know how to have a balance in my profile to bring in sleezier girls that want the casual dating and then the ones who want serious stuff and might be steered away if they see certain things on my profile page.
Wow this is disgusting. No wonder women consider 99% of men to be typical douchebags. It’s all a ”game” to you. Well at least you’re not a rapist. Fact of the matter is that dickheads like you make it much harder for genuinely good guys to succeed.
That is not the ‘fact of the matter’.
Some of us are not mind readers, and are getting in to this game, and YES, it is a game, very late. Not all of us just want to try and have sex with as many women as we possibly can and there are what sound like several very valid points here which could help useless fuckers like myself to actually understand what would interest a member of the fairer sex. I have been trying this onlnie dating out for no longer than a month, and i have had zero dates. Most girls are gone after two messages. I refuse to give up and because i do not know what to say, i am quite happy to play by someone else’s rules if it means that it might increase my chances of meeting someone fantastic.
2 points:
First, Dave, you must be in a giant city. What advice would you give to someone who lives in an extremely rural area on the fringes of a giant city? Like at a 25 mile radius, there flat out are no women, regardless of quality. Then I bump the search radius to 50 mile radius and it includes the giant city that’s 48 miles away as the crow flies and all of the people who live across the bay 48 miles as the crow flies (but like a 5 hour drive to actually get around the bay). In either case, none of the women who are in the giant city 48 miles away have any intention of even so much as meeting half-way, and, since it’s as the crow flies, it takes 2 hours plus to get that 48 miles if I’m doing all the driving, which I refuse to do. Most of the women I’ve messaged are plain and simple not attractive because that’s all there is within a one hour drive, and, sadly trying to find anyone just outside the 25 mile search radius is just about impossible, because as soon as I include the 50-mile radius all that shows up is people in the giant city. Which leads me to…
Second, what are your rates of reciprocity? I mean it takes me around 20 messages to get a response, of which one in twenty yields an actual dialogue (2 or more replies each), and of that probably one in ten gets to the point of setting up a date, of which all have bailed day of…not day before, not week before, day of. Often within an hour of when I’d have to leave. You said you have to send a tidal wave of messages. How many is that? And what rate of response would you say is good? Do consider that there are only so many women that it is even possible to contact in a given week (because I usually have to wait two weeks for enough women to sign up that I can actually get new women within that 25-mile search. No joke wait two weeks, message all of them, wait two weeks for a few more to sign up, repeat ad nauseum). And do consider that a huge percent of my no responses are women that live in the giant city that clearly have no intention of ever meeting someone outside of walking distance.
Oh and all this despite following your rules to a “T”.
I don’t know what to tell you dude. Move to another city if girls are high on your priority list. Clearly your current village isn’t cutting it.
Just found this now, only three years late to the party. Gold dust, man. I might not hang myself by my nuts tonight after all. Gonna give some of these a try. Thanks for all the great info!
Dave I’m using your “messaging technique” on the Cupid social site and my success rate is thru the roof!!!! A brotha know got game !! Keep up the good work!
Read this a week ago what a laugh and so helpfull :)
Hey, ok so thought I would share something that just happened. I’m over in the UK and stumbled across this website, thought I would use your email for those who dont respond to your first emails (the copy and paste 5 reply’s) sent to about 6 people and two responded they found it funny and although nothing came of it they just took it as a little bit of fun. The 3rd reply was from a women who was not happy at all and called me big headed and did I have trouble walking through doorways with my big old head and did this ever work. I responded saying in all honesty its the first negative feedback I have had and I wish her all the best in the future. And she messaged back again saying I had insulted her saying she should see a therapist….think this email is good In getting rid of the crazy’s too